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Forum:Speakers' Corner
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ in The Mall]] __TOC__ Manhunt in Thameen Early this morning Kings federal police began a raid of the village of Thameen. The local school, mosque, Islamic studies centre and Muslim brotherhood building were all targeted along with three homes. Several people have been arrested and are being moved to the prison in Noble City while the entire village is now under police control after two individuals that the police hoped to apprehend were not found. The Kings FP issued two public statements, one to Lovia and one to the residents of Thameen. The former stated that a raid had been carried out designed to apprehend five muslims who are suspected to have become radicalised. Three were arrested during the raid and investigators are also looking into the institutions in the neighbourhood investigating whether sharia law is in place anywhere and whether muslim religious practises are infringing on freedoms. The local school is under great scrutiny after stories of muslim schools in other nations being used to indoctrinate students. The public statement to Thameen told residents that they were under curfew and that anyone wishing to leave would need to be tagged and given police permission. It also made clear that once the investigations had been carried and the two missing suspects apprehended normality would return. Many residents are disgruntled but none have been too public if they are anything more than just that. Police have also been stationed outside the Lovian Times after it printed the Charlie Hedbo cartoon for Lovians on its front page and voiced support for it. The Prime Minister Lukas Hoffmann stated that any other outlet will have the support of the police if it chooses to support freedom of speech. Official statements :"We must fight extremism wherever we find it and if we do not then we risk finding ourselves under the thumb of extremism. Therefore these activities shall be carried out along with any other activities considered necessary in other settlements to ensure security and stability for Lovia. I hope that this situation ends soon and we can all return to going about our business normally." - Prime Minister and Minister of Defence Lukas Hoffmann Story related Juicy news right there eh? Hoffmann KunarianTALK 12:30, January 18, 2015 (UTC) :Hahaha, sure :P --OuWTB 12:39, January 18, 2015 (UTC) ::Yeah, but shouldn't we discuss first what we're going to do? And like it has been suggested (by me mostly), link it to other wikinations. HORTON11: • 13:48, January 18, 2015 (UTC) :::An idea I'm brewing would be to connect one of the detained persons or the hunted suspects to potential groups abroad, in Brunant or other countries like Insel Islands or Libertas, and perhaps even to the people behind the Alcacer train bombing. HORTON11: • 14:48, January 18, 2015 (UTC) I'd like to point out that if this happened in real life in e.g. the US or Britain it would be horrifyingly controversial, and though as I'm not active in Lovia any more I won't create any pages for protests, it's safe to assume that they're happening. The impression is that the police's actions are entirely opportunistic, given the recent events in France, and if I were in Lovia now I'd be very cynical about the government's aims. It seems like a nasty concession to authoritarianism and populism and one never likes to read phrases like 'the entire village is now under police control'. Especially concerning is the curfew, which argubly violates the principle of presumption of innocence, and the way that the whole community appears to be being punished for the actions of a few individuals. Also, from a purely pragmatic point of view, I'd argue this is a perfect way to alienate Muslims in Lovia further and entrench community divisions. Bluntly, the government can regard itself as the number 1 recruiter for ISIS in Lovia. --Semyon 18:17, January 19, 2015 (UTC) : Perhaps you should create protests in response to this. It'd be interesting to see that unfold. A curfew is excessive and I don't think we need one, but at the same time we need striek a balance between the personal and the collective security. HORTON11: • 19:14, January 19, 2015 (UTC) ::Well, I would create protests if I was active, but I'm not and I don't really care enough now. --Semyon 20:46, January 19, 2015 (UTC) Love the reaction from Semyon, will use that to build more story in. Horton, you should consider how UL would react and maybe make an official statement, supporting/condemning/advising whatever (expanding upon what you said above). It'd be good for political parties to get in on this. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 23:18, January 19, 2015 (UTC) :CCPL's gonna get a hard time with this. Religious freedom is one of their main points :P --OuWTB 10:57, January 20, 2015 (UTC) ::The security of our nation is paramount but we must ensure it is done according to our laws and customs. Any other activities which can or appear to infringe on the rights of others makes us no better than Muslim extremists who do the same. A curfew and "police control" is not necessary, but as ever we should remain vigilant during these difficult times. HORTON11: • 14:26, January 20, 2015 (UTC) :::@Oos: I don't know it's got much to do with religious freedom. --Semyon 17:07, January 20, 2015 (UTC) ::::@Semyon: I don't care. As long as CCPL can be way too Christian and involving Christians too much in the discussion, it's good :P --OuWTB 17:41, January 20, 2015 (UTC) :::::Lol. --Semyon 17:45, January 20, 2015 (UTC) Latest news from Brunant "18 January - A greater number of police officers have been stationed around the capital Koningstad this weekend. According to police, there is no danger at the moment but they want to maintain a presence to reassure people in case of any potential danger. It is believed that police are looking to warn off Muslim extremists who may be inspired by those in France or Belgium. It has also been recently announced by police that a known acquaintance or accomplice of the perpetrators of the Alacacer bombing in August is believed to have made his way to Brunant." HORTON11: • 15:21, January 18, 2015 (UTC) Vote your Heretow! / Lasovat do thine Heretow! Vote your Heretow, Oos Wes Ilava! Lasovat do thine Heretow, Oos Wes Ilava! --OuWTB 14:29, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Uncle Oos, he listens / Oame Oos, he lizn Uncle Oos, he listens. Oame Oos, he lizn. --OuWTB 14:39, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Enitshive That Heretownost Vote your Heretow, Oos Wes Ilava! Lasovat do thine Heretow, Oos Wes Ilava! --Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 14:42, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :Hahahah, you using an old campaign again? :o You gonna be that creative if you get to rule Oshenna, mine harven? :P --OuWTB 14:47, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ::I'm a little limited in my graphical capability at the moment. I don't even have MS Paint on my computer. --Semyon 15:09, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :::Oh, so you're a Mac guy :P HORTON11: • 15:16, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::Then use Wiki-syntax :o --OuWTB 15:16, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Example ^ / \ / ! \ / FEM \ / INIST \ / \ ----------- vote Oame Oos As an example :P --OuWTB 15:16, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ^ / \ / ! \ / Oos \ / càllù \ / kaxwyñy \ / takavíhkù \ / Lîmbårgù så \ / nemåscì tùski \ / c'à takavíhkium \ / sàstäłù Malsky'um \ --------------------- That's what I call art :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:30, January 29, 2015 (UTC) : :o Yeah, that's only possible if you don't use the standarddijålekt :P --OuWTB 15:31, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ::1. My dijålekt is the standarddijålekt though :P 2. I'm sure such a poem would be possible in Ankadijålekt as well, though mayhaps with a different content :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:34, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :::2. I tend to disagree though :o 2. let's try :P --OuWTB 15:35, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::1. Thatś bewcause you're from the wrong łátoskì :P 2. Sure, go ahead :P Make sure your poems adheres to the pattern of four lines with one word and four with two :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:38, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ^ / \ / ! \ / Qy- \ / tomňe \ / anvèndu \ / takavíhki \ / nestandard- \ / dijålektu ne- \ / kànit nítłja ca \ / normaldijålektu í \ --------------------- :o --OuWTB 15:39, January 29, 2015 (UTC) 1. Tsss.. 32. :o Too late :P --OuWTB 15:40, January 29, 2015 (UTC) 1. Tsss-té :P 2. Make another poem :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:41, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ^ / \ / ! \ / Oos \ / ságot \ / bètrari \ / nítłtáale \ / šcu Qytomňe \ / necàllu c'a-í \ / anvèndni stłòcu \ / standarddijålekti \ --------------------- :o --OuWTB 15:47, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ^ / \ / ! \ / Jàx \ / ságom \ / mergùto \ / Ankatâlum \ / scu neníłem \ / blinci úrduqë \ / takavíhkù tłúñù \ / necàllùstiànda íù \ --------------------- --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:00, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :I don't understand dijålekts with takavíhki nominative pronouns though :'( --OuWTB 16:01, January 29, 2015 (UTC) ::Tsss... :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:09, January 29, 2015 (UTC) A message from Neil Hardy Hello, In a time of real crisis, we have already accomplished the 2015 First State Elections. We have allowed every Lovian citizen to have their say in up to three states, on who should become the Governor in all five states. We have already made massive progress. I would like to congratulate every governor and vice-governor that was elected. It doesn't stop there though. Us politicians must follow the Constitution, Lovians have not elected us to sit there, earning tens of thousands of dollars. The federal elections are way overdue and it is certainly something we need to press on with. I have contacted several average Lovians yet I have only heard negative feedback that they don't have an option to democratically elect Members of the Congress. We will have a cooldown period from the state elections of around 5 days, however it is only in the best interest of Lovia that we elect Members of the Congress democratically, and as quickly as possible. Feel free to leave any feedback below. Thanks Neil Hardy. THANK YOU CLYMENIS/DENK JY NOORDSTATERS THANK YOU FOR 5 YEARS OF PROGRESS IN CLYMENE. HERE'S TO FIVE MORE. HORTON11: • 16:10, January 30, 2015 (UTC) Prime Ministerial Announcement As your re-elected Governor and Prime Minister I wish to thank Sylvania for its unbound support. I understand these are hard times but hard times call for hard leadership. After the previous incursions from extremist militants who thought that they could force institutions and procedures upon this nation or parts of it without a democratic mandate we have to be staunch against anyone who would do the same. I support the reforms the current government is pushing through. I would remind my colleagues that with the support of myself that CCPL managed to reform the schooling system in this nation to make it truly adaptable and friendly to religion, that UL have managed to gain the necessary reforms they desired for Truth Island and that with my support we might return to functionality. It has been made aware that Neil Hardy is attempting a pseudo-democratic coup against the Lovian Government after the instigation of the State Elections which it seems were arranged to give him a form of legitimacy to try and force a false national election upon the nation. It will be made clear that there will be no more elections of any form until the national constitutional convention is completed. His aim is to install himself as Prime Minister and I fear he may have the support of people whom I thought better of, such as Abrahams. I do wonder how his recent meetings and declarations of support for non-CNP members have taken place without my knowledge however I cannot comment upon that. I can say that his lust for power without earning it is disconcerting. Oos has contributed to this nation and his state and given us a nation we can be proud of after years of communist mismanagement, Abrahams has been a constant source of ideas that have contributed to forming this nations laws to this day. These men are worthy of the title of Prime Minister. Neil seems to have taken a wrong turn in his career and as such I am now ending his membership of the CNP. I encourage everyone to focus now upon the constitutional convention which I shall be pouring all my efforts into as of today. I hope to have truly democratic elections before march, until then I expect all other true democrats to work hard and make sure the convention ends swiftly and we return with a Constitution to make this nation run. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 21:22, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :Wow, the CNP's internal procedures are very totalitarian. --Semyon 00:40, February 1, 2015 (UTC) ::Neil Hardy (Happy65?) isn't doing a pseudo-democratic coup. The elections were passed and it was the time to do them. And, it's his right if he wants to be a candidate for the Prime Minister. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:06, February 1, 2015 (UTC) :::@Kunar: Have you even talked to him about this issue? Ending his membership may be a little bit too much... --OuWTB 09:22, February 1, 2015 (UTC) @Semyon: The party is streamlined to deal with matters such as this. @Traspes: No, elections haven't been passed. And it isn't the time to do them. Technically we shouldn't have done the state elections but we shall have to let that slide for now, I didn't realise happy was using them to try and force this kind of thing and try and gain support. And we don't have "candidates for Prime Minister", we elect a congress and they form a government. Even then what has Happy done to earn the position of PM? he has written no laws and his tendency to try and increase his own power economically or politically are bad traits for a PM. Horton, Oos and I who have all been or are PMs have written laws and have never tried to monopolise power. @Oos: It would have been better if he had talked to me first before trying this whole thing on. But it is clear that he wanted to try and take the position discretely for whatever reason. I will talk to him when I have the chance and hopefully we can resolve the whole thing, but for now a hard response is needed. I do hope we can talk though, I'll leave him a message now. Honestly, ask yourselves. Why do it now? he hasn't increased his activity recently. Most recent activity has been from Oos, Horton or Traspes. It is simply that he wants a position of power. It has been a tendency of happy for a long time, do we all remember the SCP and how that went? he did not create any policies but still hoped to be elected. I am guilty of being inactive, I will admit. I have neglected the position I was trusted with. But I am going to go over to the National Constitutional Convention page now and work on it and make sure that it is completed swiftly now. Use this link to go there and please, comment and I can rewrite things to better suit us. There are proposals for all three first articles and now the second proposal is in voting stage although the rules mean that at least two people must support it and there must be more pro than contra votes. Let us finish this convention. Then have our election campaign and election. You cannot judge who to vote for with only five days and five days without a campaign. We must ensure that there is plenty of time for campaigning and plenty of time for voting so that we can actually get an idea of what every person actually stands for. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 09:58, February 1, 2015 (UTC) (IC) Neil Hardy's membership has been reinstated. He has given me reassurances and wishes to ensure the constitutional convention is finished swiftly and in good manner. I applaud him for this and hope that we can quickly move beyond this brief issue. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 10:53, February 1, 2015 (UTC) :Very good you guys found a solution :) Let's work on this constitution convention! --OuWTB 18:28, February 1, 2015 (UTC) Congressional speech by Vladek Przwalsky Dear Lovians, and especially Oceana, I am very glad to announce that I have been elected into Congress today by preference votes. Unfortunately, my priatel and list-predecessor Kunar Ilava, did not get elected. I wish him all the best in his works in the Oceana State Council. To get to business. What will I achieve in Congress? The answer is very simple: I will block any State Reforms that decrease Oceana's power even further. The Noble City tyrans will not decide on Oceana matters! Instead, I will give Oceana back to the only people it belongs to: the Oceana people. I expect to get this done within a year and we can finally declare ourselves free in the summer of 2016. Directly after that, we will remove all foreign elements from our beautiful state: that means anyone who does not want to accept an Oceana lifestyle and anyone coming from another Lovian state. In the meantime, I will also make sure that no criminal activities, such as abortion, gay marriage, and blasphemy are tolerated in the entirety of Lovia. In short, Vladek Przwalsky has come to stay. --Vladek Przwalsky 15:37, April 30, 2015 (UTC) Raise State Taxes and Show the Power of the States Due to the failure of the current government to address any of the social or economic issues faced by the ordinary people of Lovia I will now take action on a State level. I will raise the State taxes in Sylvania to be a progressive but fair system of income tax that will save the poorest from paying tax but ask the richest to help those in need. I will keep property and sales taxes low but raise a small import tax to raise funds for Sylvania. To do this I need to carry out an early census and survey the wealth of Sylvania so that taxes may be set intelligently. When these funds are raised I will firstly ensure that all of Sylvania has the correct amount of Primary Schools and that these are properly funded via the voucher system. Then I will look to ensure the same with Secondary Schools. I will also combined with this set up the Sylvanian Educational Board to provide the official curriculum to the schools of Sylvania. Following this I will ensure Local Governments are well funded and will create a law to produce a stock of social housing in Sylvania which will be devolved to these Local Governments. Further I will ensure that the Sylvanian Healthcare, Fire, Waste and Water services are all fully funded and fully operational. Following this I will create a Sylvanian Energy Company to produce sustainable energy for Sylvania and perhaps other states. This will provide jobs and cheap electricity helping Sylvanian industry flourish. Now I will talk about the maybes, I hope to properly implement the bus service I started and to further this with an initiative to make rail travel more practical and affordable for all. I hope to create new libraries in settlements that lack them and to create a Museum of Sylvanian History in Train Village, helping to bring tourism and wealth to the Town. Further I will consider reviving the Sylvanian State Investment Deal and revitalising Sylvania that way. I encourage other Governors to consider taking the action necessary to help the poorest now that the central government has failed to act. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:31, May 20, 2015 (UTC) : :o —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:49, May 20, 2015 (UTC) :: :o --OuWTB 13:31, May 20, 2015 (UTC) Prime Minister resignation Today, the so-called leftist faction in Congress stabbed their electorate in the back and endorsed the conservatives' taxation proposal, allowing it to pass instead of the moderately socialist version endorsed by myself and the Minister of Finance. The decision of politicians like Nicholas Sheraldin, Justin Abrahams and Katie Conroy to truckle to the conservative elite leaves me no alternatives. I may be Prime Minister in name, but if I cannot muster the support in congress to pass a simple budgetary measure I cannot continue to describe myself as 'head of government.' The bill should be viewed as a vote of confidence, and in accordance with that, I resign as Prime Minister and as Minister of Minorities. The passing of these tax measures renders this government hamstrung, as radical policies which require heavy government funding may not be implemented. More importantly, it signals that my supposed allies are not to be trusted. Elected on platforms of change, of wealth redistribution, of reforming society, they confine themselves to a middle-class comfort zone of insipid progressivism, content to be nothing and to change nothing. I must congratulate the conservatives on their robust opposition, both inside and outside government, although clearly their efforts to undermine me pale beside those of my governmental colleagues. As is well-known, I have received a huge number of death threats from a variety of sources, particularly from Oshennan conservative Christians, but more recently from figures who I believe to be agents of the Burenian government. I cannot deny these threats have influenced my decision to resign. I know my supporters will criticise me for that, probably deservedly, but to put it simply I know I am not fated to be Lovia's Tsvangirai. I have no confidence in the Federal Police's ability or willingness to protect me or my family. A new Prime Minister must now be appointed by congress, which may choose to simultaneously replace the entire government or even to hold new elections. Which of these options is chosen is irrelevant to me, as I have lost faith in Lovian democracy. I do not intend to take any government positions in the future. --Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 14:44, May 30, 2015 (UTC) Oos Wes Ilava for Governor in Oceana/Oos Wes Ilava fo Gonner in Oshenna --Oos Wes Ilava 15:22, October 19, 2015 (UTC) With Charles Jones as Governor in Clymene, trees will be planted :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:29, October 20, 2015 (UTC) :What kind of trees? KunarianTALK 18:39, October 20, 2015 (UTC) ::The ones you see on the picture :o --OuWTB 10:04, October 21, 2015 (UTC) :::Dead ones, then? :P --Semyon 12:48, October 21, 2015 (UTC) ::::It's autumn, so of course their leaves are a bit reddish :o But indeed, 'cle Oos likes to plant beeches :P --OuWTB 15:10, October 21, 2015 (UTC) An end of an era, a start of a new one With a heavy heart, I speak to all Clymenis as governor for the last time. Today ends my third term as state governor, and I will continue my work elsewhere. These have been years with difficulty, but have been years of progress, improvement which have shown a resounding unity of Clymenis during the good and the bad. I thank each end every person for working to truly make this state better, and for leaving a meaningful legacy for future generations. I congratulate Mr. Mezatir, hope he can live up to the expectations and continue the good work carried out by myself and my predecessor, Mr. Villanova. Now a new chapter has begun and I would like to thank Seveners for choosing me as their new governor. Too long has the state had inactive governors, that despite their good intentions have lost interest in this state. Unlike them, I do not see Seven in any way boring. It is a state rich in cultural and natural variety, which it should be proud of. Not since the days of former governor Breyev has Seven truly been cared for, and I hope to return to that. Three years of dedication to Clymene are what I have done, and now I will start the first of potentially many years of dedication to Seven. 16:01, November 2, 2015 (UTC) : I will be working with other states as well, most notably Sylvania, to improve interstate relations and make it a better place for all. Mezatir [[User:FictiveJ|'FictiveJ']] (''discuss'') 21:20, November 2, 2015 (UTC) Vote for Nicholas Sheraldin for Sylvania! Vote for Nicholas Sheraldin of the Green Party for: *More efficient and more environmentally friendly public transport *Better infrastructure for the hamlets and villages of Sylvania *New construction in Noble City to resolve housing shortages *A new state census for 2015 *Greater protection and conservation for Sylvania's natural areas *More recognition and protection for Sylvania's heritage sites *More recognition and protection for the minorities of Sylvania *More recognition and protection for Sylvania's unique cultures such as those of Train Village Vote for Nicholas Sheraldin for Sylvania! 77topaz (talk) 23:21, November 3, 2015 (UTC) Vote Nicholas Sheraldin to keep the CCPL out! —TimeMaster (talk • ) 17:41, November 5, 2015 (UTC) :::Neil Hardy is too good with his propaganda :o Mezatir [[User:FictiveJ|'FictiveJ']] (''discuss'') 22:12, November 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::Vote Neil Hardy to keep the complain-addict out! :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 07:53, November 6, 2015 (UTC) :::::Âsir Neil axevåt câtti, 'vota Hardy e tå kain hospitâlike, transporta e kultur-preserwå, e vota Sheraldin e tå kain t'kani rugbî!' :P Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 07:59, November 6, 2015 (UTC) :::::That language is netakaviki isn't it? :P Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 08:10, November 6, 2015 (UTC) 77topaz (talk) 21:14, November 6, 2015 (UTC) ::We're establishing a union between the parties. Happy said so. :) Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 22:23, November 6, 2015 (UTC) :::Just to clarify, if I was elected I'd look to work with the Green Party, especially on environmental matters. There'd be no official 'union'. Also, it was Neil Hardy who founded the Noble City bicycle sharing system :P Neil Hardy 12:06, November 7, 2015 (UTC) :::That's a privately owned business, though, not a governmental organization. 77topaz (talk) 20:08, November 7, 2015 (UTC) ::::Support a tram in Noble City, Mr. Sheraldin? :o Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 22:56, November 7, 2015 (UTC) Free Phaluhm NO MORE CHINESE OCCUPATION. Respect our sovereignty. ''' Since 1900, the Chinese government has been hoarding Vietnam and Phaluhm islands. This caused wars between China, Vietnam and Phaluhm. In 1951, we have been invaded by China, this shows the lack of respect of our soverignty. Oil wells from the Chinese are even been '''built in our territory! PHALUHM ARCHIPELAGO IS OURS! NO MORE. FREE PHALUHM. Lancededcena 22:10, December 8, 2015 (UTC) ::China is committing basic human rights violations, don't support them. ALL PHALUHM IS OURS AND ONLY OURS. Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 22:52, December 8, 2015 (UTC) New Era A random man steps onto a soapbox at speaker's corner Lovia is a great project. But I think it's original structure was made for a different time and things need changing. We should aim for a vibrant community above all, however in the past years this was placed at the bottom of the pile in favour of politics. I believe this led to the situation Lovia is in now. It became very much a case of people being excluded because they didn't have enough seats in congress, people blocking development in Lovia's lore and it also led to attempts to power grab. It led to us agreeing to not one but multiple periods of civil unrest, including a civil war, in an effort to increase activity. What we need is a system that deals with these issues: that allows people to get involved quickly; that allows people to have influence whether they are in charge or not; that completely avoids power grabbing. However I think we should also seek to preserve as much of Lovia as possible and change as little as possible. Maximum effect with minimum change. To start with we should revisit how citizenship works. Of course citizenship should work by requiring activity, however it should also work to reflect contribution over time. My proposal is that people become a citizen after two or four weeks and are allowed to choose a settlement of primary residence. Following this as they accrue time on the wikia, they will accrue a further secondary, tertiary, quaternary and quinary property dependent on the time they are here. With those additional homes being open to being revoked if they become inactive. We should however look at federal elections and Congress in a more inclusive manner. Firstly I think we need to work via a pendulum system, with a lean towards government parties leaving government and non-government parties entering government. Secondly we need a way to have some level of political stability and the ability to pursue policies. Stability should be done by trying to have a set of reasonably consistent political parties that carry on throughout the years and are able to be contributed to, without contradicting their main objective, by a variety of editors. We should make it easier for a government to pass laws, this could be done by giving the winning parties seat bonuses, perhaps 20% (20 seats) would go to the three largest parties. This, coupled with a system that decreases the value of the votes of the incumbent parties, would lead to a congress that enact policies, switches government, alters policies, switches government, alters policies. We should also add public motions and petitions to the system of Congress. Public motions being non-law changing motions that citizens can force Congress to debate and vote on and petitions requiring the government to respond. This would increase the inclusivity of Congress to new starters. Concerning states we should return to a presidential system, with the state councils being open to a lot of roleplay however the Governor being able to sign edicts that go into state law or to spend devolved funding, with a limited amount being able to be signed or repealed each week, allowing for Governors to act but not be complete dictators. State elections should also have a pendulum system that favours challengers over incumbents. Additional to these comments on elections, they should be more frequent than yearly, other communities I have been part of have had elections every 4 months and it's worked incredibly well. We should do that and stagger them like we do now. Congress would be elected every January, May and September while Governors (and roleplay state councils) would be elected every March, July and November. Local councils should be changed to be completely roleplay based. So that we don't create ridiculous levels of government that have to be monitored. We should also bring back the supreme court, however have it be a stationary thing that deals with in game and wikia issues. It should be made up of 3 Moderators, Oos being one, I can't remember if we have any others. And they should vote on every issue and aim to deal with things in a moderate manner while rigorously enforcing the rules. For this reason I will call a citizen's caucus in Congress. To have citizens vote on these issues and finalize this change once and for all. The man leaves, the crowd disperses (I'm also going to work to try and bring new people to this wikia) KunarianTALK 12:20, February 2, 2017 (UTC) :I wish you every success with reactivating Lovia. Unfortunately, it really is the end for me this time. --Semyon 14:55, February 2, 2017 (UTC) ::People always return to Lovia. Don't be afraid to lurk but I wish you luck in your future endeavors. KunarianTALK 16:44, February 2, 2017 (UTC) :::Indeed, I'll probably pop in now and again for a long time to come. And thank you. --Semyon 16:49, February 2, 2017 (UTC) Semyon is absolutely essential to healthy function of this wiki so I also plan to not be involved. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:15, February 2, 2017 (UTC) :This is a dumb comment and I wish you hadn't made it. If you wouldn't mind doing me a favour, Kun, don't reply to it, 'cause I foresee a rather depressing trajectory for the rest of the conversation. --Semyon 18:22, February 2, 2017 (UTC) ::It's true though :P —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:49, February 2, 2017 (UTC) :::That's fine. I plan to convert you Time... Not with god (maybe tho) but with action! KunarianTALK 20:19, February 2, 2017 (UTC) ::::We could also bring back activity by turning Wikination into an evangelistic site. :o --Semyon 20:34, February 2, 2017 (UTC) I think we should make a system in which we just pop in every once in a while. Just like my use of several mobile apps :o --OuWTB 19:38, February 2, 2017 (UTC) :Yeah, perhaps returning to a simpler system will enable that. Tbh I plan to do the leg work here to get this started. KunarianTALK 20:19, February 2, 2017 (UTC) ::Well to be honest part of me does not want to let Lovia go, but at the same time, it does feel like it is time. We have had great moments and memories, but perhaps it might be time to gracefully let her go? You and others have proposed big, sweeping changes in the past, and none have really taken off or have been successful, and that's the problem. We bite off more than we can chew, and not everyone is always on board. Remember the constitutional convention? it put off lots of users (me included), cause it was simply too much to do at once. ::I personally prefer Oos' idea. We can better continue as a casual/occasional site over a full commitment as was Lovia in the past. As much as these proposals tend to promise, I honestly do not forsee any change that could restore the site to the golden era pre-2011. [[User:Horton11|'HORTON11']] 19:12, February 4, 2017 (UTC) :::To be honest we've all come a long way. Lovia is one of the few things that I really had to do for about three years of my life. There is a part of me that thought I should just leave it, in fact that's kind of what I have tried to do several times. But i always end up coming back. For better or worse I can't really let it go right now. And I'm willing to make the effort to take small manageable steps to have another go at bringing Lovia back. We may not return tot the golden age of pre-2011 or even the 2012/13 era. But if we can breathe some level of life back into Lovia then it's worth it to me. KunarianTALK 19:44, February 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::Yeah, but here are my thoughs. You seem to be the one with the grandest plans to revive Lovia. Not saying it's a bad or good thing, but they end up not taking off. We become busy with your own lifes, and the changes in themselves are much too big to effectively take hold (ex. the constitutional convention) which just sees the proposals cast aside. Small manageable steps would be good, but your proposal is large. We can't count with lots of users, and none are as interested as you at this time to become fully active. Sometimes I would like to see the wiki retired, keep the memory of it alive rather than the actual wiki artificially alive. [[User:Horton11|'HORTON11']] 19:55, February 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::We disagree. But I'll try to convert you to a true believer. KunarianTALK 23:08, February 4, 2017 (UTC) I have to agree with Oos and Horton. I feel several of us (including myself) have sort of lost their interest in Wikination and won't be interested in continuing the user-based political system which we used to have. As Horton says, such things don't seem to work anymore because we no longer have any users who are active enough. I too think it would be better to let users just pop in occasionally whenever they like, without having any duties to the wiki. That said, we could still have a user-based political system where at any time the users who happen to be active make up the OOC congress, which then wouldn't correspond to the IC one in the same way it did before. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:54, February 5, 2017 (UTC) :I find it quite sad to read this conversation. This wiki has so much cool stuff on it (I was just looking through archives of Speakers' Corner at all the political posters - even some of Oos' were pretty good, Bucu's were absolutely hilarious. :P) and I fully understand why I used to be so absorbed in it. But there's so much other interesting stuff in the world, and I neither want nor can really justify pushing on beyond this project's natural life. The thing that is best of all about the site is the community - users who know each other well, engage with each other's work, work together on common projects - something I think is quite unique compared to similar sites. I think one of the defining features of friendship is being able to talk absolute nonsense with someone, and by that criterion you are very good friends of mine. :P Even if the wiki falls silent for good, we'll still have memories recorded here, and I hope the community can survive beyond the site itself. --Semyon 14:00, February 5, 2017 (UTC) ::I fully agree with Semyon and Qyto here. I don't see Lovia inactive as a bad thing at all. It is better to retire the wiki while all was good over seeing it kept going sans the activity, creativity and involvement we have seen in the past. Now, that does not at all mean we have to retire the community. We can move onto other new projects, what would give us freer reigns to do other stuff and free us fro the constraint Lovia has, due to her highly developed states, such as government/legislature only, one where we can create a realistic landmass and larger population within a world, etc. Lovia will not have perished if she goes inactive, she will have exited gracefully. [[User:Horton11|'HORTON11']] 15:50, February 5, 2017 (UTC) :::I would be all for a new project with a group of people. However I don't think that's what people want. If people signed up to do so I would be over the moon. If you want to try and get people together to agree to do that then great! I'll be the first to sign up. However I think that fixing Lovia is preferred by most people over starting anew. KunarianTALK 17:28, February 5, 2017 (UTC) ::::We don't even need to start a new project. If users are interested, there are other projects out there. That said, most users have shown they'd rather keep Lovia as is (see the above comments). Just because the wiki ends does not mean the community has to, and the past months have shown just that (ie. our 10 year anniversary). [[User:Horton11|'HORTON11']] 19:00, February 5, 2017 (UTC) :::::If you have no specific alternative and some people do want to see if Lovia can be brought back to prosperity then there's no need to throw in the hat. KunarianTALK 20:09, February 5, 2017 (UTC) Oos Wes Ilava prays/modlit --OuWTB 20:42, February 14, 2017 (UTC)